Posts Tagged ‘Neptune’

Projecting on movie stars. (Gulshan Devaiya, in “Hate Story”)

This what I’ve been thinking and perhaps others have written about it before or perhaps what I’m writing here is not quite correct. I certainly haven’t thought about it for very long or done much research on it. It’s about Neptunians, really. People with Pisces strong or Neptune much aspected. Especially with personal planets. And Neptune with Venus if you’re narrowing in on romantic love.

I was listening to a Howard Sasportas lecture on Venus (UAC 1992) and he was talking about the trials that people with Venus squaring Neptune go through. Can’t be very easy if you have Venus opposing or conjunct the planet of illusions and illumination either.

And this is what I think: Neptunians fall in love with archetypes. I’m not using the word “archetype” in any strict sense with reference to Jung unless I am doing so inadvertently. What I mean by it is concepts we hold like: hero, victim, genius, mover-and-shaker. Feel free to add more.

It makes sense that Neptune is associated with celluloid. Because in movies we see these archetypes clearly defined, they come alive for us. Is it any wonder we fall in love with movie stars? They’re such a perfect hook for our projections.

I suspect Neptunians project more than other people and on more people. Because Neptunians see archetypes. It’s not always easy for them to see people as flesh-and-blood mostly un-glamorous beings, no matter how rich or talented or how victimized and misunderstood.  Neptune has no boundaries and what happens when you put the planet of romance with this planet that knows no bounds? It isn’t easy to love the way Neptune wants us to, to love all there is, all there are, unconditionally. It messes with one’s mind or do I mean heart? So you see Neptunians caught up in impossible situations with impossible people and happy-and-miserable at the same time; stumbling around in a weepy daze in this very limited and limiting space-time continuum reading and writing poems, watching or creating movies, reading stories and living out their own. (more…)

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A friend of mine wrote a poem that I love. It’s a haunting poem, about lingering love. The poet has Neptune squaring her Sun, Moon and Mercury; and trining her Venus.  She uses these squares very well and fairly drips with creativity: whether it be with a pen or a paintbrush.

Writing is cathartic: you can write away your sorrows or your unfulfilled loves, you can write away your angst or put your dreams into words. It calms the heart. As does reading. Reading also connects us to others, lets us peep into their lives, their hearts. You had your heart broken? So did I. You had a few dreams you had to bury? So did I. You felt the glory and triumph as your heart soared when you went chasing a dream? So did I.

Reading lets us know we are not alone. That the feelings we feel are universal. Then we can smile at our heartaches and laugh while we wipe away a lingering tear. It’s like having a heartfelt conversation with an old friend: nothing changes after it, but you are comforted. The scattered pieces of your heart fall back into their rightful places.

Neptune makes the heart long for something out of this world, something dimly perceived. In many lives, this manifests as repeatedly falling in love with an idealized image of another person (usually unattainable). With a misty dream. This is what Jeffrey Kishner says about Venus-Neptune contacts in his post Embrace Your Longing: “The Sufi poet Rumi wrote that the heartache associated with yearning for Divine connection is the connection itself.” Read his post, he’s done a great job of capturing Neptune’s elusive longings in words.

Here is the poem I promised you:


Recommend a cure, please, would you?
You did so well finding your little pill
It was so simple and seasonal, your flu

Instruct me on taking these corners, could you?
You turn and leap and travel yours so well
I limp and retrace and hunt for glue

Show me the way to play, please, would you?
I falter, fumble, drop the pass
By then you’ve scored, high-fived, had the new

Show me how to slough the words off, please, would you?
I keep re-labelling, measuring, checking
You’ve switched tags, lasered the tattoo

Talk me through how to sleep and wake, please, would you?
I fear sleep and pace through endless foreign night
But you slumber and your dawn brings untasted dew

Allow me to mimic your moods, please, would you?
I bulwark myself, savage my pillow, overtangle the knot
Judge and err, count and care what was fog, what true

I’m sorry to keep asking HOW.
And WHY.
It’s just – you just made it look so easy
My guru, my folly, my darling friend.
How you glided and alchemied and sorcerered into my dark
And then cheerfully will-o’-the-wisped to the end.

A word for the poet: Darling, if you’re reading this, your Venus does trine Neptune, you know. And maybe you will find that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It may not be this particular rainbow, but the rains will come soon and there will be other rainbows that light up the sky.

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I’ve been thinking about disillusioned Neptunians. Well, really about disillusioned and bitter Neptunians and this comes to mind:

Lilies that fester, smell far worse than weeds.
-Shakespeare’s Sonnet XCIV

The Bard has something for everyone, no? I don’t know the nitty-gritty of the iambic pentameter or the blank verse, but that hasn’t hampered my enjoyment of Shakespeare. His soliloquies in Hamlet and Julius Caesar contain gems: not just because of their wisdom, but because he makes love to your mind with words.

But I love his sonnets the best. Here’s one of my favorites:

In faith, I do not love thee with mine eyes,
For they in thee a thousand errors note;
But ’tis my heart that loves what they despise,
Who in despite of view is pleased to dote;
Nor are mine ears with thy tongue’s tune delighted,
Nor tender feeling, to base touches prone,
Nor taste, nor smell, desire to be invited
To any sensual feast with thee alone:
But my five wits nor my five senses can
Dissuade one foolish heart from serving thee,
Who leaves unsway’d the likeness of a man,
Thy proud hearts slave and vassal wretch to be:
Only my plague thus far I count my gain,
That she that makes me sin awards me pain.
– Sonnet 141

I just looked at his chart on the Astro-Databank and it shows his Venus in Gemini was conjunct Neptune. Not only that, Neptune very obligingly trined his Moon in Libra. Not for him the song that goes, “You say it best when you say nothing at all…” This Venus in Gemini, he loved the way Geminis do, through words.

Let’s clear away some of this Neptunian fog of love and romance and poetry (and possibly cigarettes) because I have something to tell you. The Astro-Database also shows that his chart has the Rodden Rating of “XX.” That means, “Data without a known or confirmed date.” Another song comes to mind, “He’s a mystery to me…”

P.S. If you haven’t already done so, check out Julie Demboski’s new ezine Eclipse. I’ve been going through it this evening and, I believe, we have a winner here. Not only does it list information on the coming new moons and full moons, but it also has some excellent astrology articles. I’m going to subscribe and save every copy.

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My blasted Neptune!

Like water stains on glass

You’ve left your impression

On my unwilling heart.

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I’m a regular reader of Dawn Bodrogi’s blog The Inner Wheel. Her work is awe-inspiring, not only because of its depth and attention to detail, but because she approaches it with great seriousness. She’s been kind enough to let me pick her brains and, recently, we were talking about Neptune, love and relationships. I want to share some of that conversation here because what she said goes a long way in dispelling the “bad guy” reputation that Neptune has acquired.  So, with Dawn’s permission, let’s turn the spotlight on Neptune and the soul-longing for love that infuses his children.


One of the reasons I specialize in synastry is that relationships are the fast track to spiritual development (and even ordinary old common sense, when it comes down to it).  We often learn more of the soul’s desire from being in relationship than we would in ten or twenty times the same space in ordinary ‘life’ experience. The state of love itself is a spiritual state, in all of its manifestations.  The ability to experience love is both a gift, and a power.  Sometimes, we give our power over to another, and sometimes we wield it, and learning about all that is part of the trial.

We often long for completion, yet we are not incomplete.  However, there is something lacking in us, a cry for wholeness, which nags at us eternally.  It is something inherent in us, the result of the separation from the Source which is physical manifestation.  No human being  born can complete us. However, we are born with the need to have certain experiences that expand our conscious awareness.  Astrology tells us so much about this.  Other people fit into our patterns of lack–perhaps connecting with us from other lives, perhaps not–and they help us learn what we’re here to learn, to know what we’ve come here to know.  These people, these loves, appear to be the missing key to what is needed.  Unfortunately, a lot of people mistake this for fate, for destiny, as if there is no choice, and I don’t blame them, because it feels like it.  Some one or some thing has brought us exactly what we need, at the right place, at the right time.  Why?  Beats me.  For me, it’s one of the great mysteries.  It’s one of the things that has convinced me that not only is the universe intelligent, but, in its own perverse way,  it is kind and generous.

If there was more proper synastric astrology about, people wouldn’t get into these delusions about one everlasting partnership.  Or they might, but at least they would be forewarned.  It’s one of the goals of my site, to wisen people up about the meaning of relationships.  There’s too much negative Neptune about–we’re still experiencing the fallout from the so-called ‘Romantic’ period (when Neptune was discovered) and the fallout from the Medieval period, when courtly love (i.e. longing for the unattainable) was the order of the day.  I think there are more and more of us who are experiencing other ways that Neptune weaves us together, no less powerful or passionate, no less profound, but more purposeful, less delusional. Sometimes I think that our ideas about what relationships should be are 600 years out of date.

It drives me crazy when people start categorizing states or stages of love, as if there is some kind of ladder of love we need to climb.  I don’t think it works like that.  Love is so varied, so multi-planed, so infinite, that I don’t believe the human mind or heart can grasp its reaches, let alone give us some kind of twelve step plan to a twin flame existence (God, I hate that term, twin flame, don’t you?  It’s like something someone would read on a Hallmark card.). There are even some otherwise very good astrologers out there who think they have it all figured out–which just tells me very loudly that they don’t know what they’re talking about.

I don’t agree that soul connections are about unresolved issues between people.  Sometimes they are.  But that’s far too mundane an explanation.  Sometimes, a lot of times, they’re about healing.  We can help one another heal. Sometimes they’re about pure joy.  Sometimes they’re about taking responsibility.  Sometimes people are here for us to simply help us through, or to learn.  Those aren’t issues.  And yes, I have to say it, sometimes they’re about giving unconditionally.  But the giving that we do in those circumstances is never painful, and doesn’t leave us lacking.  It brings us more joy.  It makes us stronger.  And it teaches us how and when to let go, that when we let go, we don’t lose love, we live it.  It becomes a part of us.

There is a mistaken notion that people who love are always on the same level of loving.  It isn’t always an equal playing field.  This is where we get into difficult territory, because we can be intensely in love with people who are not up to our level of loving, and cannot reciprocate.  However, where real love is concerned, there is always a kindness and an understanding that allows us to let go. 

The notion of ‘forever after’ in love is rather strange to me, because for me, the love we feel for others is always forever, embedded within us.  If the love is genuine, we will pick up where we left off.  In particular, intense sexual loves carry the deepest imprint. There is a belief in Tantric Buddhism that every time we make love to a person, we create a little ‘ghost,’ an echo, a psychic imprint that will reverberate through time.  What we often don’t realize, and what I hope we are opening towards, is that these seemingly ‘extraordinary’ experiences of love are everyday, common experiences.  The world is not put together in the way we have been taught.  And we need to be more careful about where we put our energy.

It’s human nature to want to cling.  Deep down, we know our lives here are ephemeral, and we fear it.  Our reaction to our human brevity is to long for ‘forever’ types of love. For one love that will never alter, never abandon.  Yet in real terms, each love is defined by the participants, and each love is unique, with its own purpose and history.  Some of  our loves will develop side by side.  For others, we will play ‘give and take’ throughout lifetimes. But in truth, we are obsessed with love because the experience of loving is one of the few in life that allows us to experience our own immortality.  When we are in love, we are at one with the movement of the universe. We are past, present and future all in one. No boundaries can contain us, there is nothing we can’t achieve.  If we had more of a sense of how we could use this power, we would advance so much, so far.

As I’ve said to you, Neptune and I are old friends.  My experiences of him have run the gamut, from the typical longing for the ‘unattainable’ in my youth to, well, the strange and intense and awe-inspiring new experiences of love that keep coming along.  If we’re open to love, it is never finished. It grows stronger and wiser and more flexible and more sure.  The kind of power that love wields, the power of awakening and understanding and healing, is alive and running through all of us, all of the time, if only we would stop being distracted by temporal things.  If only we could tap into it on a regular basis, instead of focusing on the silly bits, think how far we could go…

ABOUT THE AUTHOR: Dawn Bodrogi has studied astrology since the age of twelve, and has been a practicing astrologer for over twenty years with a special emphasis on synastry. Her studies in Jungian psychology, alchemy, and Buddhist philosophy inform her work. Her upcoming book, The Inner Wheel, takes a new look at interpreting secondary progressions. You can see more of Dawn’s work at her blog, The Inner Wheel: Living with Astrology.


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Editor: You got that, right? Do the interview and get some good dope on Neptune.

 ::NR cringes at the inadvertent pun::

 NR: Yessir!


NR at Neptune’s apartment 

::Rings doorbell::

Nothing happens.

::Rings doorbell again::

A lady in a flow-y chiffon outfit opens the door.

NR: Hi, I’m here to see Neptune. From the paper? We had an appointment.

Lady: Oh! I thought that was next week!

NR: Well, it’s today. I have a deadline on this one. It goes to print tonight.

Lady: In that case, come in, come in.

NR: Thanks.

IncenseNR steps inside and stops. Takes in the room. Blinks. The windows are covered in multi-colored saris; there are rugs everywhere: some oriental, some with space-age designs, lots of books: in shelves, on the floor, on tabletops; the walls sport an eclectic collection of art.

She blinks again. The room is…hazy somehow. Her eyes water.

::muttering:: NR:  I get it, I get it. Guy rules fog and smoke and haze. But does he have to makes such an exhibition of it? Jeez!

::She sneezes::

Lady: Bless you!

::She sneezes again::

Lady: Oh, dear! I think the agarbatti smoke it getting to you. Allergic are you?

NR: Planets in the sixth square Neptune in my natal chart.

Lady: Oh, my! Sorry about that. Let me open a window.

::Fresh air dispels the smoke and NR gets back to the subject at hand::

NR: Is Neptune in?

Lady: You’re looking at me!

NR: You? But I thought Neptune was a guy!

Neptune: Well, I can be anything anyone wants me to be, you know? In your head, you see me as a woman; so for you, I am a woman.

NR: Ah! I see, it’s that projection thing. What I expect to see is what I get. Isn’t that a bit misleading, though?

Neptune: That depends on your point of view, I guess. There’s objective reality and there’s subjective reality. Which do you think is more powerful?

NR: Why, objective reality, of course! See, this is a wooden stick. What else can it be?

Neptune: For you it’s just a wooden stick. For someone else, it could be a murder weapon. They might recoil at the sight of it. It might freak them out. You know?

NR: Huh. Yeah, okay. I get that. But since we’re on the subject, I believe that, at best, your message is that this is a world of illusions. I don’t think I get that one.

Neptune: Let me tell you a story. That’s one of the ways in which I communicate. Through stories, parables, fables. This one’s from India. Once upon a time there was a young god and he goes to this older god and asks what is maya?

NR: You know, not everyone might know that word. Let me just look it up and get a good definition. Okay, this is what Encarta says, “Illusion of material world: in Hinduism, the material world, considered in reality to be an illusion.”

Neptune: Good, thanks. What a delight your Mercury in Virgo is. So helpful and precise. Yeah, so where, was I? Oh, yeah, so he’s like, “What’s maya?” So this other god waves his hand or something and they find themselves on earth. Now because of heavy rains, there’s a flood on and everything is chaotic.

Our young god sees a woman in distress and he swims over and rescues her. So, naturally, they fall in love and marry and go on to have a child. Our hero is now so busy getting food for his family and taking care of them that he’s forgotten why he’s on the earth in the first place. But he’s happy enough.

One day, he has to go away on a trip and when he comes back, he sees that heavy rains have destroyed his home. His wife and son have been swept away by the flood. He sits down near his ravaged home and cries.

In midst of his grief, he feels a soft touch on his shoulder and sees the familiar face of the older god. He gets up and embraces the other man, pouring his tale of woe into the other’s ears. The older god waves a hand, earth disappears and they are back in heaven again. “That,” says the older god gently, “was maya.”

NR: So, what are you saying? This world here ::taps the chair:: isn’t real? That this is my imagination? Are you saying…

WineNeptune: We’ll get to that. Relax. Have a drink.

NR: I don’t know if I should.

Neptune: Don’t make me laugh, kid. You want to understand Neptune, and you won’t drink?

NR: Okay, just a glass of wine then.

Neptune: Here you go.

NR: Thanks ::takes a sip:: Hey! That reminds me! I’ve got another question. And this is rather a serious one. Addictions. ‘Fess up!

Neptune: It’s true, my hard contacts with personal planets can lead to substance abuse. But they can just as easily lead to inspired writing or great art. It’s like a spectrum, see? It’s up to you which part of it you want to experience.

NR: But don’t you feel bad about that guy who drinks every night or that woman who’s ruining her lungs by smoking cigarette after cigarette?

Neptune: I feel bad. I feel bad for everyone. God, you have no idea! ::looks visibly upset:: Man, I need another drink!

Neptune refills both glasses

Neptune: Oh, that’s better. You don’t know what it’s like to feel so much! I see the grief in every life and I have to get away from it all. The drink helps.

NR: You could just as easily meditate.

Neptune: I’ve tried that. But my challenge is not to merge with the infinite, it’s to stay grounded. And meditation, well, I pop out of my body.

NR: Really? You mean like astral travelling?

Neptune: Oh, yeah. You know about that?

NR: Yeah, I read that they teach the Tibetan monks astral travelling to bring home to them the fact that “This is a world of illusions.”

Neptune: Some things you have to experience to understand. With your third eye open, you can see auras, heal others, astral travel. Have beings from other levels come to you in dreams with messages. These things you’ll remember, so the next time, when your faith is tested, when you wonder whether there is more to the world than just what you can see, you’ll remember. And remembering, know. That there is more.

NR: Oh, that reminds me of something lovely that Christina Georgina Rossetti wrote:

‘I might show facts as plain as day;
But since your eyes are blind you’d say
“Where? What?” and turn away.”‘

Neptune: Yeah, sweet kid. Jupiter conjunct Neptune in her third, you know.

::scribbling in her notebook:: NR: So, you rule poetry, too, huh?

CinemaNeptune: Poetry, photography, the cinema, the oceans…

NR: …lies, deceits, half-truths…

::cringes:: Neptune: No need to be so harsh, kid!

NR: Just telling the truth here.

Neptune: The truth. What is the truth? Facts? Don’t give me facts, tell me what your soul needs. What will make life meaningful for you, makes you want to live? It ain’t facts. Soul food, kid. What’s your soul food? That’s what I’m about.

NR: Love, I guess…Hey, that’s another thing! What’s with all this unrequited love you’re inflicting on people? I just heard that song recently by The Cardigans called ::snorts:: “Love me, love me, just say that you love me.”

Neptune: Ah, yes, I adore love. The longing…the dream…

NR: …the suffering…

Neptune: All feelings are blessings, even pain. You’re alive, aren’t you? You want to live, don’t you? Well, life is also suffering. And suffering can be beautiful. If you let it be, don’t get attached to the pain…let it flow through you, talk about it, write about it, make poems, create stories, put it in a movie, share it with the world.

Glasses are refilled again by Neptune

NR: Okay, got that. I think. My head’s feeling a bit funny. What time is it? Omigod! Gotta go! Got a story to run.

Neptune: Bye, darling!


NR is at her desk reaching for a headache pill and coffee when the phone rings.

::wincing:: NR: Hello?

Editor: Get in here right now!

NR: Yessir!

Editor: Why are you wearing sun glasses?

NR: The light…it hurts me eyes.

Editor: What have you been up to? Are you drunk?

NR: Well, sir, Neptune kinda insisted and it seemed rude to say no…

Editor: That explains it! What is this incoherent rubbish that you’ve written? What kind of an interview is this? There’s no structure, no clear beginning and end! It rambles and worse, it’s vague!

NR: Yeah…but, don’t you see? It captures the spirit of Neptune perfectly.

Editor: See if you can fix it! We’ll run it, but only because we don’t have a choice. But, watch yourself, no more drinking during working hours!

NR: Yessir!

::Backs away slowly, bangs into the door::


Back at her desk

::groans:: NR: “O thou, who didst with pitfall and with gin
Beset the road I was to wander in,
Thou wilt not with predestin’d evil round Enmesh,
and then impute my fall to sin.”

Maybe Omar Khayyam ran into Neptune, too. Hey! That’s a good quote! I’ll finish my interview piece with that!

::starts typing::

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Come, sit here, I’ll give you some wine
It’ll make things bright, bring out some shine.

Sink deep in the chair, why be afraid?
We’ll swap stories, not engage in tirades.

Did I tell you about the rainbow that disappeared?
And suddenly, in the midst of my despair, reappeared.

And if you’re feeling sad, have a good cry
It will make you feel better, go on, try.

I know, I know, this not how it was meant to come out
But it’s lost now and you’re old enough to do without.

But there’s comfort here in the lamp light
With reflection, thing’s look a little bright.

You can leave your worries there, there by the door
Take a refill, we’ll drink some more.

It’s late evening and your day’s done.
We’ll slouch together and watch the setting sun.

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